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Long term resident with EU documents transfers from Italy to Germany (Gelesen: 3.871 mal)
Themen Beschreibung: What happens when a long term resident and not EU cittizen transfers from Italy to Germany?
Elena1
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06.04.2011 um 10:54:21
 
Hello,

Sorry for writing in English, my German is still horrible. I am a long term resident in Italy and I have a long term permit for stay and work issued by Italian goverment, so called EU documents. I am not an European cittizen.
An employer from Germany had made a concrete offer for work, we signed a contract and applied for my work permit in Immigration office in the city where is the company that is offering me work.
I have following questions:
      According to your knowledge how long it takes that the Immigration office answers to such an application (they told me about 4 weeks and that everything should be ok since I am an engineer and PhD, but the practice is often very different from theory Smiley)
      What happens with my Italian EU long term resident documents? Does Germany authorities take Italian documents upon giving German permit for stay and work or just control Italian documents and give them back to a holder? This is important for me regarding Italian authorities, since they are making problems here.
      According to your knowledge what expiry date should have my first German documents, if I get an approval? An employer made me working contract for an indefinite duration, I don’t know does it matters regarding the expiry date for permit for work.

Thank you in advance for your patience. Best regards
Elena
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Antwort #1 - 06.04.2011 um 15:31:09
 
Elena1 schrieb am 06.04.2011 um 10:54:21:
I have a long term permit for stay and work issued by Italian goverment, so called EU documents.


Is it "EU long stay" issued under directive 2003/109? This is an important difference.

If it is "EU long stay" it will theoretically be easier to get a German residence permit although there is no guarantee and it remains discretionary and depends on whether the employer can be expected to recruit an EU citizen or person who already has a residence permit. It would be a different permit, but in neither case would the first permit be indefinite.

If it is "EU long stay" your status in Italy will remain valid for six years residing in Germany and after five years you can switch to the same status in Germany.

If it is a different permit (temporary permit or settlement permit under the Italian national rules) you would need to check the rules there on lapse of the permit. It may lapse on departure or after a certain period and this may depend on the reason for departure.

The German authority won't take take the Italian permit from you, the Italian authority may if it lapses on departure following deregistration. Possessing it doesn't automatically mean that it remains valid.

If you're aiming to become an EU citizen moving would probably delay this. Also if you don't have "EU long stay" in Italy then moving means that your continued stay in the EU wopuld depend on renewal of the German permit.
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Elena1
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Antwort #2 - 07.04.2011 um 10:49:05
 
Thank you very much for your answer. I have enclosed the answers to your questions and some further questions.

Is it "EU long stay" issued under directive 2003/109? This is an important difference.

Yes, this is “EU long stay” issued under directive 2003/103 and it is written on it EU. When I have applied for work permit in German Immigration office they asked me this and agreed on it after verifying.

If it is "EU long stay" it will theoretically be easier to get a German residence permit although there is no guarantee and it remains discretionary and depends on whether the employer can be expected to recruit an EU citizen or person who already has a residence permit. It would be a different permit, but in neither case would the first permit be indefinite.

Yes, I understand it and I am awaiting the answer either approval o rejection. Do you have any experience or knowledge how long the process can last to get the answer? Does the length of working contract influence the expiry date of first permit obtained?

If it is "EU long stay" your status in Italy will remain valid for six years residing in Germany and after five years you can switch to the same status in Germany.

In theory it is like that in Italy, but there are always some problems in practice. It’s Italy Smiley.

The German authority won't take the Italian permit from you, the Italian authority may if it lapses on departure following deregistration. Possessing it doesn't automatically mean that it remains valid.

Yes, I understand. I have asked this since I have read that in Holland on example the Italian long term permit for stay was taken from the holder in order to issue Holland permit for stay.

If you're aiming to become an EU citizen moving would probably delay this. Also if you don't have "EU long stay" in Italy then moving means that your continued stay in the EU would depend on renewal of the German permit.

It is correct and I understand completely.

Thank you once again for the time dedicated to my problem and have a nice day.
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Antwort #3 - 07.04.2011 um 19:00:45
 
Neither §38a nor the administrative regulations (AVwV) nor directive 2003/109 (eg. Article 19) specify the duration of the permit. It is specified however that after twelve months employment is permitted, ie. the restrictions imposed with the initial grant would cease to apply. Check with the relevant ABH for processing times and initial duration. The permit is renewable as long as the conditions are met.

If there is a risk that details of your status in Italy may be lost make sure that the possession of the permit there is recorded.

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Antwort #4 - 08.06.2011 um 22:29:47
 
Hallo ,

ich hatte letztes Jahr ähnlichen Fall-  sollte mit  einem Daueraufenthalt EU aus BRD in Österreich arbeiten.

Da es Transfer innerhalb des  Konzern gewesen wäre,  war  ein Erlaubnis in Österreich unproblematisch . Nur ganz am Ende der Prozedure meinte die Dame in Magistrat, dass mir die Deutschen Behörden  meinen Daueraufenthalt entziehen werden.

Bei KVR habe ich die gleiche Antwort bekommen- nach 6 Monate müsste ich entscheiden wo und mit welchen Titel ich bleibe.
Ich habe mich nur gewundert über den Sinn und Zweck des Titels, musste aber akzeptieren und in Deutschland bleiben.
Jetzt lese ich hier etwas über 6 Jahre Aufenthalt außerhalb Deutschland. Da  das Thema  Auslandsaufenthalt bei mir nicht ganz weg vom Tisch ist, wäre ich sehr dankbar für die Info.

Grüsse,
Cherry
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Antwort #5 - 08.06.2011 um 23:12:01
 
cherry30 schrieb am 08.06.2011 um 22:29:47:
wäre ich sehr dankbar für die Info.

Die Antwort steht in § 51 Abs. 9 AufenthG .

Wenn da was unklar ist, bitte melden.
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(ich sach nicht von wem das ist. Aber es ist hier zu finden, wenn man richtig sucht)
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