hello,

Im sorry but my German is not good so i will write in English and hope that people can help me.
I am from Holland and Married with a Nigerian and we are living in Germany (Hamburg) sins 1 april 2006 and we have 2 children.
I have my Freizugigkeitsgesets/EU sinds june 2006, because my husband had some  problem  in holland he got a SIS registration and the auslanderbehorde has given him Duldung 2 times, because they want to find out what happend in Holland before giving him his stay in Germany.
Now we find out that my husband is verry verry sick and we have a letter from the specialist in Germany that if he dont get treatment quik my husband will die in the comming months.
The problem is he dont have health insurance because i cant insure him because of the Duldung, i can only insure him when he got his stay.
we have tried everything, but he dont get medical help.
we dont know what to do annymore, does somebody have any suggestions.
Is it not so that because i have my stay that they have to give my husband his stay too.

Hope to get a reaction.

Moos

Hi,

We have a lawyer, he says that my husband will not get his stay in Germany
but according the european law or the mrax urteil, Germany can not refuse him unless he is a danger for societie... wich he is not.
We have tried for the health insurance but no way, we have a letter from the internist that says that my husband will die comming months if he dont get treatment, but nowbody seems to care.
We brought the letter from the internist to the auslanderbehorde and ask if they can be quik with the investigation and they said sorry that my husband is dying is not thier problem.
Does sombody know if they can send my husband away  if they can refuse his
stay in Germany is the lawyer right, or do i need a new lawyer.

Moos

My husband was in Holland for 10 years in the procedure, and in 2002 we took in a friend of my husband because he lost his house, while the friend was looking for a new house he stayed with us.
the friend used our house adress to transport drugs and when the police find out
the friend run away and they arrested my husband, because they thought he had something to do with it.
We go to court and they have sentenced me and my husband, because we have given sombody the oportunity to do this.
In holland when you are in a procedure it is forbidden to get anny problems with the law or police even small things.
So he had to leave holland in 2006 afther 4 years that this happend.

Moos

@moos
I'd suggest that you go to your local "Sozialamt" and talk to them about the situation.

You might also use
www.dasoertliche.de
and search for "Migration" for the city you live in (or the next major city)
This should return contact details for organizations with experience in migration/alien issues.

Hello moos,

Zitat:

What "procedure"? What was the reason for it?

We went to the social amt allready, they gave my husband 140 euro a mont for
expences he will make he will get it every month.
But the department who can give him insurance dont want to give him that, because they say that we are married and i have to arrange that in holland, but in Holland they say no, because they can only insure him if he get his definit stay wich they dont give because they are still investigating.
The migration arranged this connection for us with the social amt.
Further we connected the red cross, they helped where they could there are two specialist who tried everything possible to get help for my husband, they sent letters to the social amt, they arranged a lawyer, they even called the mayor of the place we stay but nowbody can help.

Moos

My Husband was in the procedure to get his stay in Holland with me.
Its verry difficult in Holland to get your stay even if you are married and have children, like we do we are married and have two children.

The sentence my husband got was a jail sentence, but a gentle one, during the week
he was in jail and in the weekend he was home.

Moos

moos schrieb am 04.10.2006 um 12:12:31:


How many weeks/months/years?

Regards, ULF

I have a job in germany but i am in Holland now i have good connection with the person i work for, he gave me free time as long a i need because i am trying to get
help for my husband from Holland.

The sentence my husband got was 8 months
and because i am a woman and mother i got a work sentence of 240 hrs.

And like you said if my husband is a danger for societie than so am i, but they gave me my stay allready in june.

Moos

inge schrieb am 04.10.2006 um 14:44:51:


Spouses of workers can join their health insurance for free. This must apply also for spouses of EU citizens. If the insurance accepted her spouse, there wouldn't be a problem.

Regards, ULF

Zitat:


Your case is different because you´re an EU citizen and your husband is not.

Zitat:


That´s right, in case the EU citizen is a worker.

Moos,  if you got your own EU stay in June you must have proved a certain income, enough for yourself and the kids, because this is the precondition to get an EU stay. Nevertheless your husband got some money from the Sozialamt, and that´s a bit of a problem: if somebody comes to Gemany and asks for social benefits shortly after his arrival (it´s not too long from June up to now) there is a strong suggestion, that he only came here for benefit reasons, and if so, the Sozialamt is entitled to refuse help. That´s why they said your husband should have stayed in NL. Just for the record: although you already have your stay, EU right entitles the Ausländerbehörde to take it back, in case preconditions have been dropped. German law commits spouses to provide maintenance for each other, so if your husband gets benefits that means you are no longer able to earn a living for your familiy, which is the precondition for your stay. There´s no difference between you yourself or your husband asking for benefits.
You should talk to your health insurance company again and immediately. Maybe Caritas or Red Cross are willing to interfere or ask some other local information centre for immigrants or even your local church . If they actually have the right to not let your husband join the next person in charge would be the dutch authorities I´m afraid to say. They have the responsibility to care for their citizens in the first place;  health- and benefits system in NL is as credible as it is here and actually there is no reason for you not to go back, except the sis-problem which is as much of a problem here. If the NL as your home country -and a neighbourhood country to Germany in addition- doesn´t see a reason to help their own citizens and their families then why should a host country be obliged to do so? That sounds really harsh and it´s not my intention to be rude or something; it´s just the way law works. I do hope things will turn out fine for husband.

Zitat:

There shouldn't be a problem in getting treatment. The problem only arises if you can't cover the costs, which wouldn't be unlikely if it's a life threatening illness.

Again: Which is your health insurance company?

I am quite sure, that you get help from Caritas or Diakonie.

Please contact them immediately.

moos schrieb am 04.10.2006 um 19:20:36:


How do they call that money? The normal social allowance is about 345 EUR.

Regards, ULF

inge schrieb am 04.10.2006 um 16:36:45:


I'm not sure what is a free health insurance as normally workers pay some percentage of their wages to AOK etc. but spouses and children can be covered by such an AOK etc. insurance without extra pay.

Regards, ULF

Zitat:


But normally this would also be true for the whole Schengen area, there´s no difference between being in NL or in D., and that´s why your husband still´s got a Duldung. I still don´t understand why you don´t have your own insurance at a german company. If you work as a full time worker in Germany, your employer automatically has to pay taxes, pension fund and health insurance for you, namely in Germany. This is called gesetzliche Krankenversicherung in which spouses are entitled to join, like AOK or so. If you don´t have a german insurance then something must be wrong with your job. Why doesn´t your employer pay for german health insurance? Because this is the real reason you can´t get any help from german insurance companies and also the Sozialamt. If you have your own insurance via your job your husband will be able to join.

Zitat:


In the first case the question would be how a job with no more than 400 € could  be proof for the abillity to back up a livelyhood for a mother and 2 children. A 400,-- € job is not appropriate to get a Freizügigkeitsbescheinigung for 3 persons. In the second case her husband wouldn´t have gotten money from the Sozialamt, so I don´t think that´s the case.

I guess, he pays you cash and without tax card? I´m afraid this doesn´t sound like a completely legal payment but some sort of exploitation... . Free living is a sort of payment and even if you don´t get more than 400,-- monthly the free living comes in addition to that and therefore obliges your employer to pay insurances and maybe taxes, but -of course- it´s cheaper for him the way it is and you are the one to pay the bill. No wonder you have problems with the authorities, I don´t think your husband will get his stay here that way.
EU citizens are free to move within Europe only if they´re able to earn a living for themselves and their family, and unless you are a wealthy person this includes a proper job and health insurance for the whole family.
Talk to your employer and ask him to give you a proper working contract with adequate wages and a rental contract for your room. Even if you don´t have more money cash at the end of the month you will have insurance for you and your husband. If he´s a nice guy he´ll agree. I honestly don´t see any other way to find a quick solution.

Even though you have a working contract this is no proof that your employer pays e.g. "Rentenversicherung" for you. He can write anything in the contract and not pay it - and you will only notice it, when you try to get your pension in Germany and the BfA (Bundesanstalt für Angestellte) tells you that they don't have any dossier and payments about you.
It is the same with the unemployment insurance.

So your questions to your employer would be: Zahlen Sie Rentenversicherungsbeiträge und Arbeitslosenversicherung für mich ? Haben Sie mich bei der BfA gemeldet ?
(do you pay pension-fees and unemployment insurance fees for me and did you register me at the BfA?)

If you do not want to ask your employer directly, you can ask the BfA (they are in Berlin). But if you do so and you employer has not paid anything yet, he will get many problems.

regards
Janna
(ik spreek ook een beetje nederlands)

So your questions to your employer would be: Zahlen Sie Rentenversicherungsbeiträge und Arbeitslosenversicherung für mich ? Haben Sie mich bei der BfA gemeldet ?

What if he did not do all of this... do I than have a problem? because i am insured
thru Holland and if it is good by next week my husband is also insured thru krankenkasse, can they than still refuse my husband his paper??
So the man i work for must pay an amount of money so that i will get krankekasse, does somebody know how much he have to pay for me to get this.

Sorry for all these questions, but for Holland everything is diffrent and i want to
be prepaired when i will go and speak to this man i work for.



(ik spreek ook een beetje nederlands)
  hoe komt het dat je nederlands spreekt?

Moos

moos schrieb am 06.10.2006 um 18:24:25:


Take this work contract, go to AOK, and you should get a German health insurance for yourself and your husband. (Well, they might still try to refuse your husband as he has no written Aufenthaltserlaubnis-EU.)

Well, AOK, Deutsche Rentenversicherung, Bundesanstalt für Arbeit etc. might ask him why he didn't register this contract in time.

For your self-employed business, contact Finanzamt ASAP to get an Umsatzsteuernummer. You might be exempted from this Umsatzsteuer for small business.

Regards, ULF

moos schrieb am 06.10.2006 um 18:12:07:


It's mor or less 7,5 % (of [300 EUR + the value of the flat rental] to be paid by your employer and yourself. Just for health insurance.

Add more %% for pension and unemployment insurance.

Regards, ULF

Bitte nicht als Kritik sondern als Rat, Bitte , Hinweis auffassen:

Es gibt eine Vorschau-Funktion, es gibt mittlerweile die edit_Freigabe...

Was spräche dagegen, wenn die letzten vier Beträge als ein gemeinsamer veröffentlicht worden wären   ?

Bei Mehrfachquotes isses hilfreich erst einiges in nen
Editorfenster zu kopieren

Zitat:

Yes, but the free room comes in addition to that. Just like a `Firmenwagen´ you have to add the worth of it as a payment in kind to your cash income, and I guess this could be more than 390,--.

Yes the rent for the house is 320 euro.

moos

As far as I know a Aufethaltserlaubnis is not neccessary to join as a spouse; `gewöhnlicher Aufenthalt´= being registered at the Einwohnermeldeamt should be enough. Take a Meldebescheinigung with you.

Zitat:

Without knowing what the Sozialamt exactly said (maybe they even gave some §§ ?) it's difficult.
But since the money given was in regard to the medical treatment, they might have come to the conclusion that your/his insurance company needs to cover these extra costs.

Zitat:

First of all, it's not really simple to expell someone who is married to an EU citizen. Though keep in mind, that both you and your husband are seen as "Bedarfsgemeinschaft". If he needs money from Sozialamt, this money is accounted against you too. So in the long run, you both might be expelled (to NL probably), if you need public money too long.

Regarding medical treatment in Nigeria: Undoubtful medical treatment there is much worse than in the EU, but anyway: your "specialist" is a medical specialist and not necessarily one who has the power or knowledge to decide if a certain medical treatment is possible in Nigeria. The Ausländerbehörde will use the medical data from the letter to check with own specialists and the embassy if treatment is possible or not. And probably they would send your husband to another specialist to judge his health.

Zitat:


Ich antworte in der Boardsprache : Wie soll das funktionieren ?