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Ausländerrecht >> Sonstiges zum Thema Ausländerrecht >> Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
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Beitrag begonnen von Stevo2000USA am 18.07.2017 um 16:25:58

Titel: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Stevo2000USA am 18.07.2017 um 16:25:58
I still speak German but it's been a while. I left Germany in January 1996, during a recession, returning to the USA for work. I lived and worked in Germany for 21 years, will be drawing German social security in a few years. I had what they call now a Niederlassungserlaubnis or permanent resident status. I read somewhere that it expires if you leave the country for 6 months or 180 days. I also read something about it still being good if I had it for over 15 years. I am no longer married, divorced many years ago in Germany. My question is: Can I move back to Germany and find a job there? Can I retire there and draw retirement benefits? Can I still apply for citizenship? Can I get the ID card if I'm not living there? The USA is busy destroying social security and health benefits. I would transfer what I have to the German system and live a healthier life there, free of GMO product.

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Stevo2000USA am 18.07.2017 um 21:35:55
Ok, this is what I have found so far on www.berlin.de

Since I am not yet 60 years of age, and I have spent over 15 years in Germany, my permit is still good.

Also, I will be 60 this year. I will have to travel to Germany once every 11 months and make sure it is documented, or drive to the German consulate in Atlanta and have them somehow confirm my visit.

Please let me know if I'm not understanding this correctly.

From www.berlin.de:

A permanent settlement permit expires 12 months after the holder has left Germany
◾If the permit holder is at least 60 years of age, and
◾If he/she has stayed in the federal territory legally for at least 15 years.

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von greenock am 18.07.2017 um 22:10:12

Stevo2000USA schrieb am 18.07.2017 um 21:35:55:
Since I am not yet 60 years of age, and I have spent over 15 years in Germany, my permit is still good.


When your livelihood is secured.




Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Lila F. am 19.07.2017 um 00:43:19

Stevo2000USA schrieb am 18.07.2017 um 21:35:55:
Since I am not yet 60 years of age, and I have spent over 15 years in Germany, my permit is still good.

Also, I will be 60 this year. I will have to travel to Germany once every 11 months and make sure it is documented, or drive to the German consulate in Atlanta and have them somehow confirm my visit.

Please let me know if I'm not understanding this correctly.


I think you misunderstood the rule for people over 60 years. Usually, the residence permit expires after 6 months, for people over 60 years at the time of leaving the country who have lived legally in Germany for at least 15 years it expires after 12 instead of 6 months (so they acutally have an advantage not a disadvantage). However, if you have lived legally in Germany for over 15 years and you were able to afford your costs of living ("gesicherter Lebensunterhalt") at the time of leaving the country permanently the residence permit does not expire. So, it doesn't matter that you turn 60 now, and there is no need to go to Germany every year. Either your residence permit already expired (if you didn't comply with the requirement "gesicherter Lebensunterhalt" at the time of leaving the country permanently) or it is still valid and will never expire (if you did comply with that requirement).

Please keep in mind that what I explained is just the current law. I don't know how the situation was back in 1996. You should investigate whether there have been any changes in the relevant laws since then. If you lost the permit back then due to different laws you won't get it back now because the law has changed.

As far as I know, you can ask for a statement of validity of your residence permit at the German consulate. Then you would know for sure whether it is still valid.

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Stevo2000USA am 19.07.2017 um 13:27:41
Thank you very much for the information. I will check with the German consulate. Back in 1996 and prior, they put stamps in the passports to show Aufenthaltsberechtigung. The Passport is long expired but I kept it because of the stamps. I would have to get a new stamp in the current passport, or as I read, nowadays ID Cards are issued

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Saxonicus am 19.07.2017 um 14:31:49
Allzu große Hoffnungen über den Fortbestand Deiner Niederlassungserlaubnis solltest Du Dir, nach meiner bescheidenen Auffassung, nicht machen.

§ 51 Beendigung der Rechtmäßigkeit des Aufenthalts; Fortgeltung von Beschränkungen
(1) Der Aufenthaltstitel erlischt in folgenden Fällen:
.
.
.
6. wenn der Ausländer aus einem seiner Natur nach nicht vorübergehenden Grunde ausreist,

7. wenn der Ausländer ausgereist und nicht innerhalb von sechs Monaten oder einer von der Ausländerbehörde bestimmten längeren Frist wieder eingereist ist,

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von deerhunter am 19.07.2017 um 14:50:51
After 21 years leaving Germany I not see a big chance to get any way back to Germany about your old status. There is no chance, when you read the rules!
You must start again the complete procedere

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Petersburger am 19.07.2017 um 15:02:02
There is a little more hope than you can read in answers #4, and #5.

I don't know exactly, whether the old "Ausländergesetz 1990" had identical rules to the actual § 51 AufenthG.

Actual law means, that after 15 years legal living in Germany a Niederlassungserlaubnis don't expire by 6-month-absence or leaving Germany at all, if ... (see § 51 (2) ).
How long do you live abroad has no influence on this.
An individual letter from the Ausländerbehörde of last town you were living gives you information about that fact in your case.

So I would write to this Ausländerbehörde and ask about such an "Fortbestehensbescheinigung".
No other autority gives competent answer to your question.

With such an letter from you the Ausländerbehörde has to check all the relevant information, including "old law vs. new law".

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Stevo2000USA am 19.07.2017 um 18:35:31
"gesicherter Lebensunterhalt"

At the time I left Germany in 1996 I had a home in Kronberg /Taunus, was paying rent and my wife and her family were still living there, and the wife was still gainfully employed. I continued to pay rent for a long time after I relocated. 

I was also able to provide gesicherter Lebensunterhalt, so this rule does not stand in the way.

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Petersburger am 19.07.2017 um 19:02:15
Nobody here can solve this problem for you.

The only authority who can is Ausländerbehörde for Kronberg/Taunus.

Titel: Re: Niederlassungserlaubnis / Aufenthaltsberechtigung
Beitrag von Jojo2015 am 27.07.2017 um 11:21:55
The old AuslG 1990 had also a rule like today.
More than the rule today it was ment for pensioners. But there was also the Chance with having enough money for living by yourself.
You Can read it in § 44 I a AuslG.

I think there is a good Chance, if you Never ever got money from  the social Office. Like it's written before: contact your old foreigners office (ABH) in Germany and apply for the confirmation.

If this doesn't work for you (i Don't think so, But you never know), you Can maybe apply for a Visa for "Rückkehrer" as in § 37 V AufentG in a few years.

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