Bei gemeinsamer Reise ist das das richtige Visum für ihn.

Vielen Dank für die Antworten!
WorldBrigde hatte ich schon gefunden, war aber eben unsicher, ob diese EEA Family Permit für uns das richtige ist.
Da der Aufwand aber offensichtlich wirklich sehr hoch ist, werden wir uns wohl für denKurztrip eine andere schöne europäische Stadt aussuchen und vielleicht später mal eine längere Reise nach GB machen...
Danke nochmal!

EuroMover schrieb am 05.11.2010 um 19:16:22:

...und die Reise nach Düsseldorf zum zuständigen britischen Konsulat kostet u.U. mehr als der geplante Besuch in GB.

Wir selbst und auch viele unserer binationalen Bekannten haben auf Grund der umständlichen Verfahrensweise zur Erlangung des Family Permits bisher auf diese Reise verzichtet. Im Schengenraum gibt es genügend andere interessante Reiseziele, die ohne diesen bürokratischen Aufwand besucht werden können.   

War auch schon mal Thema hier im Forum:
http://www.info4alien.de/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1285785453/4#4

EuroMover schrieb am 05.11.2010 um 20:35:54:

...und mit einem bißchen Glück hängst Du dann einige Stunden am Kontrollpunkt rum, bis die britischen Grenzwächter Dir dann endlich irgendwann das Visum erteilen.

Sofie598 schrieb am 06.11.2010 um 17:56:24:


Diese Bestimmung, §5(4) der Richtlinie, wurde in GB richtig umgesetzt, Reg 11(4), und wird meistens richtig angewendet, ist aber nicht garantiert.

Sehr viel, was für ein EEA Family Permit verlangt wird, ist rechtswidrig. Dennoch, wenn man manche Dokumente nicht einreicht wird der Antrag abgelehnt. Somit ist eure Entscheidung verständlich.

Sofie598,

Das List von Documents ( http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/docs/1903073/supportingdocseeafamily ) is sehr Komisch.   Es ist EINE list zusammen fur viele verschiedene applications moglichkeit.  Nicht nur Ehepaar, auch "Dependent Ascendant"

Zitat:

Zitat:

usw...

In realitate, sie mussen nur abgeben:
1 EU reisepass oder Auswise
1 nicht-EU reisepass
1 Eheurkunde
1 photo
1 application formular

Sie mussen keine ausgabe uber Ihre Arbeit oder Gehalt geben.   It is "not material to a decision in this case".


Mutly schrieb am 07.11.2010 um 14:42:41:

Ja, aber es ist 100% optione, und so nicht rechtswidrig.  England konte fragen ober Ihre unterhosen grosse.  Aber es ist eine (Bloode) frage und eine antwort ist einfach optional.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low_de... (Seite 11) hast eine bischen mehr.
Zitat:


(Sorry my written German is pretty rough!)

In meine efarung, man muss nicht alle fragen antworten.  Meine Frau hat eine Irishsche visum gebrauched.  Wir haben nichts uber Arbeit, gehalt, Irische Reiseziel, usw.. genatworted.   Die Irishe had auf der Website gesagt: "All questions must be answered or the application will be refused."  But the visa was not refused, and we went to Ireland!

Mutly schrieb am 08.11.2010 um 23:26:30:

Zitat:

EUN2.4 verflichted nicht das alle Frage antorted muss.   Andere fragen habben nichts mit (1) (2) (3) und (5) zu tun!

Shau www.ukvisas.gov.uk an:
What supporting documents should my family members include with their application?
Zitat:

Mutly schrieb am 11.11.2010 um 21:43:41:

Definitely!  It is clear and quite simple.  Do you see some part of EUN2.4 as being particularly difficult or problematic?  If so, best to say directly what you are worried about in EUN2.4.  Move beyond rude!

Again, remember that this is a common visa application is used for all the different types of family member of an EU citizen.    In this case the application is by a married couple going for a short vacation.   The type of information they must give is VERY different than the type of information a not married "common law" couple must give.

Remember also that the only allowable reasons to turn down the visa are: this is a marriage of convenience, the couple is not traveling together, or the person "may be considered as a threat to Public Policy, Public Security or Public Health".   

Not answering how much money you make does not allow them to refuse the visa on any of these grounds!

In this case it is a married couple on a short vacation to the UK, so the requirements of EUN2.4 are quite easy to meet:

1. EUN2.4 point 1: They have to provide a marriage certificate.
2. EUN2.4 point 2:  They need to provide a letter, written by the EU national, which states they will be travelling together to the UK within the next 6 months.  Could be written in German.
3. EUN2.4 point 3: Not applicable – applicant does not need to do anything proactive.
4. EUN2.4 point 4: Not applicable since this is a married couple.
5. EUN2.4 point 5: Must answer the questions on the EEA Family permit application which are relevant to this, such as criminal record.   No evidence required.

I also posted a reference from the UKVisas web site, which is worth reading carefully: www.ukvisas.gov.uk
What supporting documents should my family members include with their application?
Zitat:


The rules governing the visas come from European Law, specifically Directive 2004/38/EC and ECJ case law.  They apply to all EU member states, including Germany, Ireland, and the UK.  (Look at the Schengen visa questions that do not need to be answered by family members of EU citizens, and you will see the familiar pattern!).

I am sorry I am not in a position to apply for a UK visa and leave off that information.  My experience is only in doing that for an Irish visa as the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen.

EuroMover schrieb am 12.11.2010 um 19:26:03:


No, as I said, this is a correct list of requirements.
You pointed out that there is an initial right of residence for three months. I then pointed out that EUN2.4 does indeed reflect that: "(as qualified person if more than 3 months)".

EuroMover schrieb am 12.11.2010 um 19:26:03:


Everything you've said in your last post is, of course, correct.

But this statement does not reflect the practice of United Kingdom Entry Clearance Officers (ECOs) at many visa application centres.

As I said above, if the questions on VAF5 on maintenance and accommodation are not answered, there is a risk of the application being refused. The same can happen if the supporting documents as requested/expected by ECOs is not provided. I also mentioned the possibility of illegal reference to the maintenance and accommodation requirements of the national rules and the problems of Reg 12(1)(b)(ii) which has not been but should be repealed. To that can be added an occasional but not unheard of requirement to show the origin of funds, by analogy to the national immigration rules.

I am not saying that these practices are legal. They are not legal. That's very clear. But they occur. Applicants (including spouses wishing to enter with the EEA national for short visits) must either answer all questions and satisfy the ECOs or risk refusal and proceed to the AIT, asylum and immigration tribunal.

If you search at UK Immigration Forum (link provided above) you'll find further posts from me on this as well as many experiences from various ops and immigration advisors to back up what I am saying.

The site in you signature is one of a few sites with an excellent collection of legal resources. However practical examples need to be considered too. Implementation of 2004/38 varies widely throughout the EU. The European Commission is aware that not one single member state implements the entire directive correctly.

The UK's biggest problems are the EEA family permit procedure and excessive delays in processing.

(Germany's biggest problems include the insufficient transposition and application of §3 of the directive, "beneficiaries", or as the UK calls them, "extended family members". You're right that corresponding problems do not arise with entry visas for spouses of EEA nationals. But for an extended family member, the UK is easier to deal with.)

As for Ireland, I don't have detailed knowledge of their implementation in practice or of their procedures. But these have nothing to do with the UK.

Personally I don't think the conduct of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (being the Ministry responsible for ECOs) is appropriate. However unfortunately it is the way it is.
The Home Office is better. If the applicant is inside the UK, such problems do not occur.

EuroMover schrieb am 12.11.2010 um 20:30:27:


That's true and will hopefully happen more and more. Unfortunately in the meantime, yes there may be an ECO who doesn't know the rules, but there can also be some who do and just get away with not applying them correctly. They know that many applicants are not familiar with the rules in great detail and just want their application granted, so will do as the ECO asks.

EuroMover schrieb am 12.11.2010 um 20:30:27:


The UK Entry Clearance Hub in New York is one of the best, it handles all North and South American applications except those from Brazil (there's an Entry Clearance Hub in Rio de Janeiro). Those in western Europe are pretty good. ECOs in Warsaw are sometimes known to be problematic. The worst, including for delays, appear to be in central and south Asia.

Zitat:


Did they change their form to reflect Metock? In that case they're a good example for the UK.

Sorry to reply in English, but...

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/non_eu_family_member_entry is the result of a UK Freedom of Information request (German equivalent: https://fragdenstaat.de/)

The person doing the request asks something very similar to your request:
Zitat:


UKBA responds:
Zitat:

The first paragraph means that as long as you are travelling with your Heiratsurkunde, they are required to let.  See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/no-visa-but-still-want-to-travel/ for more information and examples.

The 3rd paragraph says that, in any case, if you are legally in Ireland, then you can also go to the UK.

Hallo Sofie598,

Sofie598 schrieb am 29.05.2012 um 18:38:59:
Nicht wirklich relevant, aber trotzdem spannend: Habt Ihr dafür ein irisches Visum beantragt? Das wäre nämlich, genau wie der UK-EEA-FP, nicht unbedingt nötig.


Sofie598 schrieb am 29.05.2012 um 18:38:59:
Zwischen der Republik Irland und dem UK gibt es -ähnlich wie Schengen- an der Landgrenze keine regulären Grenzkontrollen. (nennt sich dort CTA - "Common Travel Area", ist aber nicht so wirkungsvoll wie Schengen)

Legalerweise dürft ihr ins UK einreisen, auch wenn WorldBridge das immer wieder fälschlich bestreitet. Ich zitiere mal, worauf früher hier im Thread schon irgendwo gelinkt wurde:

>>The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006<<:
Zitat:

Ich kenne einige Fälle wo Leute erfolgreich ohne Visum nach UK geflogen sind, jedoch habt Ihr dieses Problem ja in diesem Fall nicht.

Also -für den unwahrscheinlichen Fall dass Ihr an der Grenze kontrolliert werdet- beide Pässe und die Heiratsurkunde dabei haben. Ich bin insgesamt etwa ~10-15 mal mit meiner libanesischen Frau von Dublin nach Belfast gefahren, und wir wurden nie kontrolliert. (Profaner Reisegrund: 2007 gab´s in Dublin noch kein IKEA, in Belfast aber schon )

Wovor ich -mangels Grenzkontrollen- immer viel mehr "Angst" hatte, wäre eine Kontrolle im Inland gewesen. Aber im UK besteht keine Mitführpflicht von Ausweisen. Daher weiss ich nicht, wie wir reagiert hätten: "Nix dabei" oder "hier sind alle unseren Papiere"...


Sofie598 schrieb am 29.05.2012 um 18:38:59:


Wünsche viel Spaß in NorthernIreland - es gibt viel zu entdecken!

Sofie598 schrieb am 04.06.2012 um 19:34:14:

Habe 6 Jahre in Irland gewohnt, da kommt man halt auch mal im Norden vorbei

Probiert in NI einen "Bushmills" Whiskey, was ganz feines!

Gruss und viel Spass,
Christian